Talk:Requests for Comment/Close the Websites Wikis

Gravedigging.

Twitter user, music, website, all have been foreclosed... What next ? Movies will close in February 2023 and YouTubers in 2025 ?

Not exactly. You can always check out the Miraheze Gaming services that both me and Bawitdaba have created, and we are trying our best to attract users to edit it.

I don't spend most of my time promoting MGS, but yea i remember Raidarr said he want more encyclopdic wikis on Miraheze

miraheze has way more wikis than the reception wikis. miraheze =/= qualitipedia

This is exactly what I and others are saying when people think Qualitipedia is Miraheze. This is how bad it is.

People think Miraheze will collapse and lose every user and die if reception wikis close. As if Miraheze hinges on them. This is absolutely ridiculous. This never happened with Fandom. There's not one type of wiki that people think of when they hear Fandom. Miraheze should be no different.

Miraheze isn't dying; only Qualitipedia is.

What are you talking about? Sure, Miraheze will see a decline in users due to Qualitipedia’s inevitable closure, but if anything, that would actually help Miraheze.

Considering that almost 85% of QP's userbase is considered toxic, Miraheze losing all these users would be nothing but beneficial.

I think Miraheze might stand to even gain new users, or at least a more varied group, maybe people will be more confident to make wikis with a variety of subjects.

lol

Both sides have a point. While the Reception Wikis aren't the only wikis on Qualitipedia, they are a major portion of Miraheze's traffic, which explains why people associate Miraheze with Qualitipedia. Miraheze was virtually unknown until September 2018 when the Reception Wikis came here from FANDOM, and the site experienced a massive influx of users. Though Miraheze and Qualitipedia are not one and the same, Qualitipedia makes up a massive chunk of Miraheze. If Qualitipedia specifically closed, there are still other reception wikis like the YouTuber wikis. But if all of the reception wikis die, Miraheze would be hit very hard.

Better a smaller, nicer, more varied community than a bigger, more controversial one taking over the host's name.

miraheze isn't dying, qualitipedia and the toxicity it generates ran miraheze's reputation in the ground. the twitter users wiki violated miraheze's TOS, it was rightfully closed. if QP continued to tarnish miraheze's reputation with its stupid constant drama shit no one cares about, then yes, miraheze would be dying.

You've got it all backwards, Kenny. The Reception Wikis is the one leeching off Miraheze. I remember the faulty logic being used by a pedophile when he thought child porn not being allowed on a Discord server will make it die.

Kenny?

prob talking about KENNY STEWART 6284

Exactly.

Who was that?

Mar8122. Pardon my late response, I was distracted by the rebrand and the making of my own server.

Miraheze is better off WITHOUT the wikis than with the wikis as these seemed to be the only thing Miraheze is known for while Irl, Miraheze is a wiki hosting site like Fandom and ShoutDead, if anything leaving the reception wikis is saving Miraheze since it needs more original wikis such as Closing Logo Groups Wiki, Trollpasta, my wiki, Real Life Villains Wiki, Barney Bunch Wiki, DarkMatterMan's Kirby Wiki, etc

SUPPORT THE MGS

What's the MGS?

Miraheze Gaming Services

I almost thought you meant Metal Gear Solid. LOL

LOL i know it looks like it

Um... okay? That comment is still kind of pointless...

I just explained it to you. What more do you need, you’re so ungrateful

1. How am I "ungrateful"?
2. What I mean is, why did you feel the need to write "Support the MGS!" in all caps?

Do you need to always question everything. Just let me write what I want to write and I won’t need to talk about this. No wonder people find you irritating

1. Okay fine.
2. I literally just asked two questions, and calling me "irritating" is just rude.

How is it rude? It’s not like I called you a “shithead” or anything. I’d have to be that hot headed to anyway.

But yeah let’s just forget about this

It's still unconstructive and unnecessary, but fine.

Removed

YouKonade is talking about this: detailed in a blog post

I was never heavily involved in Qualitipedia, but I was summoned here because I got mentioned by my buddy DMM4500 & there's been mention of MGS and some of its members. I don't want to look like advertiser, so I won't spam link too much (you can see link to blog post above), but I felt would be useful to mention a couple of things.

Miraheze Gaming Services is NOT directly acknowledged or affiliated by Miraheze itself (the stewards know of MGS), and the "Miraheze" part of the name is because of the wikis being proudly hosted by Miraheze and embracing that identity. I founded it, and DarkMatterMan4500 is the co-founder. In truth, part of why I founded it is so that Miraheze would not just be synonymous with Qualitipedia and also prove to have encyclopedic wikis like Wikipedia except it's on "gaming" subjects to "service" gamers. Nintendo, SSB, and Pokemon wikis were the original three. I chose Croc to be the mascot of MGS, as it's more unique than choosing a Pokemon or a Mario character.

I know that Discord is popular (I quit there a while ago -- best decision I've made), but if Qualitipedia is gone, some people may wonder about where to go to next if they were to continue on Miraheze itself. So "Gaming Services" wikis (Miraheze is trademarked afaik, and again, I borrowing that part of name to acknowledge being proudly hosted by Miraheze) -- people may be unfamiliar to many here because several of the wikis do not use the more modern features such as these message walls, so they may seem dated to some as they are based on wikis from the 00s (e.g. if anyone here remembers Wikia or MarioWiki from 2007, MGS wikis will remind you of that).

Encyclopedic wikis aside, what ideas do you folks have for a different "shining star" network on Miraheze? I just wanted to throw it out there that there's another network if people feel that they need another home if Qualitipedia shuts down, even if the accommodations are different than what is provided on most Qualitipedia wikis

At least I acknowledge that Qualitipedia is not Miraheze and instead a collection of wikis. Unlike people who think that Miraheze will diw without Qualitipedia, I have thought that the former would be more boring without the latter. P.S. Neither have I known that there are over 1000 wikis on Miraheze.

The people who think Miraheze will die without Qualitipedia will contribute to its decline if they have that attitude. Some other popular wikis that Miraheze hosts include Polandball and Rosetta Code -- the latter being a longtime wiki that joined Miraheze after 15 years of hosting -- so even without Qualitipedia, I doubt Miraheze is going anywhere.

A few of the wikis I do also have editors helping. Miraheze rely on donations, so more people who find & rely on Miraheze for service, more likely donated to

I’m not very active on Metal Miraheze Gear Gaming Solid Services a lot so if you don’t see my recent activity you’ll understand

As I've said before, I still have interested in Miraheze regardless, I have interest in contributing to RLVW and REWW, and also, I will most likely create some encyclopedic wikis here, considering that I don't believe in Fandom's "people can be fans of anything" statement.

Yeah, I've been more active patrolling.

(pointless reply)

We must save these wikis

It's too late, and this discussion died a month ago.

I just managed to delete my comment on RWW.

The closure only applies to editing I guess.

Indeed. Closure isn't really a hard lock. In fact I'm tempted to make a 'closure like' state on the wiki which can have a more accurate sitenotice.

Who closed the trashy celebrities wikis?

I'm not sure why you're asking here, this literally has nothing to do with this discussion.

Yeah, I've been more accustomed to Miraheze's policies.

Trashy Celebrities was shut down by the Steward team for content policy issues.

The discussion wasn't even finished and literally all of the pages that violated the content policy were candidates for deletion.

On a separate note, you can apparently delete comments when blocked too, MarioBobFan deleted two comments two days ago.

@Raidarr So, what can we actually do the prevent the websites wikis from deletion? If we cannot even edit the wiki, “cleaning up” or “setting new rules” cannot be done.

Additionally, I think that merging these 2 wikis into 1 called “Websites Wiki” will be a good proposal. It’s rather subjective when deciding whether a page should be fresh or rotten, and some disputes are ongoing because of this (e.g. [[:mh:freshwebsites:DuckDuckGo]]). By merging it, it solves.

I'd abstain on that

It will likely cause the addition of subjects that are too average, and make the scope of the wikis too broad.

But then again, there are sites that are disputed which wiki they belong on, such as Reddit. Since websites don't really have critic scores like video games and motion pictures do, it might be a good idea to merge the wikis.

As for your example of DuckDuckGo, the deletion tag is rather invalid, see this discussion.

@Atomicstar: The wikis are not having too much pages and being not really active, so merging them will be a good option, cuz everything is in 1 wiki for convenience in cleaning up.

For interested parties to clean up the wikis and save it from deletion please comment here (both for the supports and opposes in the vote).

So now the websites wikis are kicked from QP, and so QP cannot interfere its management anymore and the decision is now at the bureaucrats’ hands there.

A possible solution is that the wikis can be non-editable/private for all users except the interested and experienced users at first for cleaning up and rules development. It can then be reopened later. (and being part of the satellite wikis of QP later if agreed)

Not a bad idea actually. It makes sense since most new anonymous users don't visit that side often

The trick here is that people who are interested need to agree on the course of action they want and the type of wiki to create, then proceed on that path.

I disagree that 'one wiki' would be too broad - that's what making a proper scope is for, setting boundaries and distinguishing pages. You can also treat contested sites with the nuance they deserve, addressing the problems and the benefits of Reddit in a more balanced way. I'd like to see case in point examples.

The wikis are not necessarily kicked out in a way that they aren't accountable to coming up with a clear idea and structure. That is the primary objective of any recovery effort. Simply trying to restore them with tiny flavor tweaks will fail.

Also, another thing about the "one wiki" idea - what is it with this idea that two reception wikis merged together = removing the synonym from the title and leaving it as [insert media name here] Wiki? Websites Wiki is the kind of title you'd give to a regular encyclopedia about websites, not two reception wikis about the same topic (one positive, one negative) merged into one. If anything, it would be Reception Websites Wiki or something like that.

I was never an advocate of just using "The [whatever media] Wiki" and if the angle is reception then sure, it should be what you suggest with Reception as a prefix. In this case a slightly more nuanced take might help. But it depends on exactly what you're trying to accomplish especially since reception + websites has always been a critical argument in the first place.

Qualitiwebia

But that won't work well if we decide to separate the website wikis from Qualitipedia

If the Websites Wikis do get re-opened, we can just make them not part of Qualitipedia anymore and be their own indipendent wikis like we did the Characters Wikis.

A proposal organizing all the comments above are at User:Matttest/Websites Wikis proposal. I will be adding the details of how we are going to clean up the wikis soon. As for now that’s it.

some pages like ign could be on the crappy games wiki

Actually IGN would fit better on TSEW since it has a YouTube channel. It's only related to CGW in terms of the fact that it reviews games, the piece of media itself is website-related.

Well lets compare the relevance here.

- Gaming company that is well known to anyone in the gaming industry and reviews games.
- Put it on an entertainment wiki about TV shows because it has a youtube channel which reviews games.

Aside from the fact I'm going to executive veto this idea because it is outside of the intended scope of the wiki and you're raising a rabbit hole by trying to introduce the idea of any entity with a youtube channel being classified as a show, I hope at least some of the comparative issues are inherently clear.

I think IGN is still better related to gaming than episodes, only that it has a YouTube channel.

I would also consider the same for Common Sense Media

Well, I guess something is getting off-topic now. We should now be discussing the reopening of the Websites Wikis. These comments should be placed in a new section.

Slightly, though the tangent of where to distribute website media is still somewhat relevant especially if it happens and the content is scattered across other wikis, further diminishing the function of a website-dedicated wiki. Either way we're not going to shoehorn pages into wikis they obviously were never designed to fit into.

Yeah I just realized this was getting off topic as well. If we do reopen the website wikis I'd be in favor of keeping both of those there.

Still, the problem is that we lack volunteers to help and clean up the Websites Wikis.

As Raidarr clearly said, it can only be reopened if there we have enough users who would like to help out, the clean up process is decided and we will proceed on that particular path. I am currently trying to do this with a new proposal User:Matttest/Websites Wikis proposal, but it seems that, still, no one are interested in or just not aware of it. If you are interested in being part of the “participants”, helping out the wikis or have comments to the new rules and guidelines of the proposals, please go there.

I have added the rules and guidelines in the proposal, please check it out

i kinda want to make an unoffical successor to these wikis independent from qualitipedia, as the FWW II and RWW II.

The wikis don't actually need to be titled RWW and FWW II, we can just go by their original name.

That’s directly what we are doing currently at User:Matttest/Websites Wikis proposal.

Just in case this decision goes through, I think we should back up whatever pages we can, because some of them would probably fit on one of the other wikis. For example, streaming sites could be moved to the TV Shows wikis, and gaming related sites could be moved to the Games wikis.

The best way to back up a page is to go into the source editor, copy the entire source code, paste it in a text editor, and save the file.

True. I would prefer that they do not get closed and just get handed off, like the characters wikis. They do have useful information.

I agree, I would really prefer it handed off to someone interested in taking over ownership. Whether it be a current admin or an active contributor. I don't see any downsides of keeping it on Miraheze.

I can imagine if the website wikis don't get closed and are instead cut loose, then they will end up in an utterly worthless state, and with no next to no moderation whatsoever, just like the character wikis nowadays. It's better they go out with what little dignity they have left than let them go to complete and utter shit.

Well, the downside to Miraheze is below mediocre, floundering content as yet another part against platform image much like most of the reception wikis have been. But I digress. Handing them off, as Blazikeye indicates hands them to almost nowhere. It's a tossup if this RfC is satisfactory for closure or if it is simply evidence that a total revision is needed. If it's the latter I will be involved and pull from interested users to put 'their money where their mouth is' to use an expression. If closed then it is likely the concept will be rebooted in one way or another, with a more focused and constructive direction.

I agree.

The television streaming service pages do not belong on the show and episode wikis, as television streaming services are not just for television series, they are also for films. However, regardless, I do agree with saving the pages. Also, I have some other ideas:

1. If the owners are okay with it, we could move the music streaming service pages to the music wikis (Horrible Music & Songs Wiki and Best Music Wiki).
2. We should make our own wiki for newspapers and magazines, I already had plans on making an RFC about making our own wikis for newspapers and magazines before this RFC was created.
3. Although I have been against this in the past, since we don't have an option now, we could add certain things to the piece of media they are based on besides websites if they don't fit in other categories (newspapers and magazines should still have their own wikis rather than video game related ones going on CGW/AGW, etc.)
   

Edit: Also, remember, import them with all revisions copied and all edits assigned to users if they exist locally.

Newspapers and magazines sound DOA to me, but whatever.

Relative to this I'm interested in hearing from anyone who would like to explore what Dorothy suggested as a revised scope for internet content, since I do believe that has potential and would endorse it as a spiritual successor should the website wikis close. This includes AtomicStar, Fatburn, and others among the current opposition; I'm also more than happy to create and distribute an XML dump for archiving purposes.

Actually I'll tell you what - given the fact it's written/printed material I will consider seeing if it would be feasible to include them on the literature wikis among with other mild expansions so they have a bit more to work with, if that would be amicable.

I thought that newspapers and magazines weren't actually literature, but turns out they are.

Like Raidarr said, literature refers to written and printed material. There are also pages about comics and manga currently on the literature wikis in addition to books.

well, they are, by non-art definition. they just don't go into the "literary text" definition.

IMO YouTube needs to be covered somewhere on QP given their terrible updates in the past few years. If RWW closes, should we move it to horrible tv shows and episodes wikis since it is related to webseries? And also merge the COPPA policy page and removal of dislike counter page in.

Fandom, another landmark page, might fit into the literature wiki because of the lack of a better place if RWW closes.

I don't agree with moving the entire Youtube page over, though it would likely be a bigger discussion than a single admin's choice. However, I could agree with the COPPA and dislike counter pages in particular.

YouTube is not entirely related to web series, but since it does have a lot of web series, I do agree that it could belong on Terrible Shows & Episodes Wiki. Also, about Fandom, it is technically also a news magazine, so it can be considered literature.

But it is an online magazine. "Literature" refers to printed material.

Which magazines are.

But the page about Fandom is more about why the wiki host sucks, bad wikis are userbase reasons. So it is going to be a stretch, given that there is a lack of a better place.

Still, it's as close as we can get.

If you need to stretch reason to make it fit, then it doesn't fit and therefore it doesn't belong and shouldn't be forced to fit.

Also, an 'online magazine' and an article strictly written around its merits as an online platform also fails reasonable definition of 'literature' as those wikis were supposed to be.

Reconsidering things, it might not be as big of a stretch since many of the claims are relating to things affecting writers and readers such as them banning accounts and closing wikis for no good reasons, forcing a bunch of ads, discontinuation of Wikia.org and moving to entertainment-oriented, and other user unfriendliness, etc. So maybe relating to bad moments.

What does advertising, wikia.org, user friendliness and so on have to do with books and directly related literature? When I said in another thread that magazines could possibly count it was because you can hold them, read them, not have a bunch of website exclusive components be a part of points written about them, while everything you listed is off-topic to the literature wikis.

Connecting Fandom and how its pages are written to news literature is a stretch, and I think you know it. That too is going to go I think, and has no purpose on QP.

I know what you mean, but it's the best we can do.

If our best is 'awful', lets leave it behind entirely.

Alright then.

Also, pages from all namespaces should be in the dump, not just ones in the mainspace. We have blog posts, sandboxes, sandbox pages, etc. that are worth saving.

Dumps save wikis in full except for files.

In the meantime I'm going to start saving pages to Archive.org. Images on pages usually get saved although they sometimes don't for some reason.

There aren't too many images worth saving, most are logos. Not to mention, there's thousands of unused junk screenshots.

We can reupload them.

Can a bureaucrat give the XML dump of both wikis? Just in case it is closed, I would like to host it and let the community members to decide on the new administration of the wiki. I am very disappointed to see such a proposal asking for closing the wikis, instead of cutting ties that we can let the community to decide on the new bureaucrats on the wiki.

In the case the website wikis are reopened, I am happy to volunteer on the moderation and reformation on the wikis.

Knowing this will not be popular among various supporters I do actually have a compromise to suggest, which would ensure the wiki is not closed - for a time. It would require the wiki(s) to go through multiple steps including re-confirming the scope they work in, establishing the lines for content between them, redefining the rules, and coming up with an admin team that will keep the new rules/scope clean and do any initial cleanup necessary to meet it. If this process breaks down, the wikis would close, but they should be given a chance to redefine themselves if the opposition - chiefly, the opposition that actually has an interest/background in the wikis - is able to get the act cleaned up. The wikis will be downgraded to 'satellite' wiksi - acknowledged by QP, but not a proper 'member' and not the trouble of any admin or even previous bureaucrat who doesn't want to deal with it. Similar to how the character wikis work now.

As long as they're no longer a part of QP, then that's fine by me since I don't want to manage and look after a wiki that I have no interest in anymore.

Until Dhemus decides, the result is disputed. Who knows if the wikis will be gone or not for now.

Hate to sound like a mini-mod, but weren’t you warned for closing topics like this? -Moisty

Are the websites wikis getting closed or not. Idk if this article should be closed as disputed given that it does seem successful. I will ping Dmehus here so that he will be able to see the outcome and decide for himself the outcome. I will also ping Raidarr here to give his input

• @Dmehus
• @Raidarr

Unfortunately Dmehus has been very occupied and the very earliest I'd expect to see him is the weekend. Him finishing it this weekend is not a certainty either. It was a risk of having him nominated for closure; in retrospect having a vote for one steward to do it rather than opening it to any uninvolved steward resulted in narrow options.

From the looks of these votes, I’m gonna assume we’re going forward with this decision. If so, when are we?

Some time after Dmehus decides it's appropriate to close the RfC (he requested that he be he one to close it given what is at stake here and the subvote in the RfC supports him doing the deed) is when it will likely be done.

This isn't really a necessary discussion honestly, IMO you should just let the RFC go through unless it's taking a long time.

Yeah, it seems like it.

I've heard from Doug that he intends to close/review this RfC this evening. That's not a guarantee it will close tonight, but from my part I believe we have all we need between inputs from involved contributors and options to close with additional paths, such as creating a wiki with successor ideas as suggested in the RfC and closing without setting to private allowing for page saving/recovery.

Hi people

Since this is probably the biggest change RFC ever, it would make sense to keep it open for at least a few weeks despite it seeming that it being successful is the likely outcome, to allow for discussion of addition options and possibility of a successor wiki.